Interview with a Regenerative Farmer: Ben Glassen

It is a joy to introduce this young, inspiring, and bright regenerative farmer, Ben Glassen of Glassen Farms. Ben started out in 2018 with a mission to feed over 100 families with nutrient-rich, ethical commodities. His thoughtful vision of educating people on the value (to their own health & the health of the land) of consuming ethical food plays out in the interview below. So with no further adieu: Ben Glassen

Q: How did you get started with agriculture in general? You didn't grow up on a farm, you live in a bigger city, and your degree is in tourism, correct?

A: Yeah, so we actually lived in Central Washington in Wenatchee until I was about five years old. We used to walk our dog around the lake, and we would pick apples off the ground and go feed them to the horses nearby. We would also see cows in overgrazed pastures, and we would take grass from the other side of the fence and hand-feed them. So I was always really interested in livestock. When I was 2 years old, my parent's friends took us all to a rodeo, and I was glued to the fence and from then until about 14 years old I was all about rodeos. Then I got into mountain biking, and that's where my interest in tourism came about. I essentially wanted to build small businesses in mountain biking and serve as a guide, but with my injuries, I had to find something else to do. I had 2 ACL surgeries back to back, as well as a back injury. From there I discovered my passion for fly fishing...and I knew about wild fish stocks being in danger, so I knew that the only sustainable way to do fish farming was land-based. It turned out that the economics director of the bike park project that I was working on had her own greenhouse and fish farm; she was practicing aquaponics. And so I went to visit her operation, where the wastewater from the fish tanks runs into a 2500 square foot beautiful greenhouse full of lush, green, food. So from 2015, until I finished my degree in tourism, I convinced my tourism instructors to let me research aquaponics. Once I got my degree in December of 2015, I went to work for 6 months in the startup community in Vancouver looking for investment dollars to start commercial aquaponics. Aquaponics requires a lot of investment, and the first partner I connected with turned out to be a complete fraudster, and so after about 6 months, I really just ran out of steam, ran out of money while looking for this big aquaponics project. I went back into tourism and guiding for a bit, which gave me some time to research low investment startup opportunities, which is where I learned all about regenerative agriculture.

Q: And you started out with quail right? Why quail? Did you intend to sell the eggs, or both the birds and the eggs, or what was your vision with that?

A: I found the pastured poultry model during my personal research, but I was living in a suburb of Vancouver, and we weren't allowed chickens in our backyard. So I was like okay, what's a good alternative to chickens? And then I came across the quail.

Q: And the way you pasture the quails...they're in moveable pens, right? What is that called?

A: Yes, those are chicken tractors. The goal is to give them enough room to feed on fresh grass throughout the day, and then to move the pen every single day (or more) so that they're always on fresh grass. So you've got control of where the fertility is directed on the land as the quail poop and move around and naturally fertilize the soil. And, instead of having a diesel-powered method for applying fertilizer, the birds have legs, so they can move themselves. Their feet and beaks provide just enough soil movement to result in aeration without damaging the soil microbes and the layers beneath, as excessive tillage might do.

Q: So what about pigs then? They're natural-born rooters, they can be a bit aggressive and really go deep into the soil. Is that considered to be too harsh?

A: Pigs are going down into the soil about 6-8 inches, so it's definitely more of an aggressive reset. So pigs are great for areas where soils are really depleted and there's not much biological activity going on. Pigs or other heavy animals with hooves would be used to uproot that soil and start over. And then you would follow up with bale grazing, where you take big round hay bales and unroll them where you want grass to grow in the future. And then you allow the livestock to graze on those bales...they'll leave some extra hay and manure as they go, which again, naturally fertilizes the land. And then once there's grass, you can do things like the chicken tractors to raise poultry.

Q: Let's say you wanted to plant vegetable crops or trees, would you still employ those same tactics? Like what if you wanted to plant rows of something...pigs obviously don't know to walk in a straight line so is that where humans come into play?

A: A lot of what we do in regenerative agriculture is on a human scale so that you don't have to bring in a lot of big machinery. So when we're talking about a market garden, we're talking less than 1.5 acres of crops. Another name for this is SPIN farming which stands for Small Plot Intensive farming. That's actually really common and popular right now. More regenerative farmers are doing this type of farming right now compared to livestock management, which is why I was so drawn to the livestock side of things. However, I am doing something similar to SPIN in my own front yard.

Q: Do you find that people are doing more vegetable/fruit farming because it's easier than livestock, or because you need less space, or what's the motive there?

A: It's more so that people find animals intimidating, or that there's really quick turn around for cash crops. Which is actually the same as raising chickens...chickens have a very quick turn around as well. It could also be that a lot of people who are drawn to regenerative agriculture are coming from a vegetarian or vegan-based diet, or also the fact that colorful fruits and vegetables present better at farmer's markets. Some people just aren't comfortable with the idea of having to kill something that has a face. In my opinion, killing a carrot is the same as killing a chicken. But I still sometimes wonder if it would be better to eat one cow for our family, instead of eating 50 chickens a year. One cow would probably last our family an entire year, whereas with chickens we probably eat at least one chicken a week. So I do try to maintain that level of consciousness.

Q: So let's talk a little more about the vegan diet and how that relates to regenerative agriculture. Do you and/or your wife follow a particular way of eating?

A: My wife, Sam, is actually a flexitarian, which means that she chooses when she is going to eat meat, based on its story: how it was raised and where it came from. She actually hasn't eaten pork for years now, and pretty much the same for beef. But we were at a restaurant for Valentine's Day, and this restaurant actually buys my chickens. They also buy other kinds of meat from small local farms near us, and they were serving a beef appetizer with beef that had been raised on Gabriel Island, which is right outside Nanaimo. And I had actually met the beef farmer herself that very week. At this operation, they only harvest one cow per week. So those animals will live and die on the same property, by the hands of the same woman. So this was meat that Sam was okay with eating.

Q: We're going to shift back to regenerative agriculture for a bit and talk about what it really means. What would you say are the largest problems that regenerative agriculture is trying to correct or balance?

A: It hits mainly on three pillars, the first being economic. Agricultural systems have to be highly profitable...the more money you can make from an operation, the more good work that you can do with education and outreach. In order to have social and environmental impact, you first have to be profitable. The social piece is all about human scale. We would rather put humans to work than invest in a million-dollar tractor, spending multiple people's wages on interest and all that. The third pillar is environmental sustainability which is the foundation of the movement. This is why we start at the bottom with growing healthy grass before we focus on raising chickens.

Creating species diversity and habitat for other animals is also important. We always say that for every one animal you bring onto the farm, 7 more organisms are able to flourish. You bring one chicken onto the farm, and 7 different bugs or microorganisms are able to succeed. And then it's exponential growth from there.

Q: How about soil? We've been reading a lot about how if you have healthy soil, it's amazing how powerful that can be for a farm. Do you see greater viability and nutrient density with your soil because of the way that you farm?

A: Oh, yes. I saw this when I started with the quail and was shocked by how fresh and green the grass was able to grow after about one week of heavy fertilization from quail manure. My yard didn't need to be watered at all last year because we ran the chickens over it so an additional layer of organic matter was drawn into the soil. It's amazing how quickly it works too. Joel Salatin talks about when they arrived on their farm in Virginia 50 years ago, the fence posts they buried are now almost completely covered in dirt because of how much their topsoil has grown.

Q: Do you have any experience with nitrogen-fixing crops and using those to healthify the soil?

A: So I don't use nitrogen-fixing crops specifically because I don’t do much planting for harvest...I would rather access the natural seed bank and propagate grasses and things that would be native to that area. By using pigs and livestock to massage the land, it will uncover crops that may have been suppressed underneath the soil. The other thing is that by changing the chemical balance in the soil by adding a bunch of fertility, other plants will prosper as well. For example, dandelions are a sign of calcium deficiency because they are able to draw calcium deep from the soil by using their taproots. And then once the calcium reaches the surface, other plants can benefit from that.

Q: One of the reasons that people don't think regenerative agriculture can be sustainable is because they don't believe it can be implemented on a large scale. Can and/or should it be able to feed our growing population? What do you think about that?

A: In the 1950s, about 50% of Americans lived on a farm, even if they didn't work on it themselves. Today, only about 1% of people live on farms. So fewer people are doing it, but we still need food, so that's why our farms have become so large and commercialized. Because regenerative agriculture focuses on the human scale, we want more people to be involved in it. So the answer is really to have more small farms serving local communities, and to get bigger, we have to aggregate. For example, the abattoir that I'm using for my pork processes cows as well, but they probably only process about 3 animals a day. They have established relationships with the local dairy farmers, because otherwise when the dairy farmers need to get rid of their cows, they put them on a truck, then a ferry, then to auction in Eastern Washington where they're turned into cheap hamburger meat, and then they're sent back to Vancouver Island for us to eat. It wastes so much time and money to do it that way, all the while forcing the cows to lose about 5 pounds per hour because of how stressed they are. Why not just do it all in one place on the island and sell premium grass-fed beef? So the key really is to have relationships between all different kinds of farmers in order to maximize resources and minimize competition.

Q: Do you feel as though this new way of farming is cost-prohibitive? That, say, only 1% of the population can actually afford to eat this way?

A: In no time in history have Americans spent less on food and more on healthcare. But it does seem like Millenials are willing to pay more for their food than other generations. You have to also realize that everything starts out as a luxury. When cellphones first came out, they were a luxury, but now everyone has one. My hope is that in my lifetime the same will happen with pasture-raised meat, and eventually, it will become the norm. People will start to understand the value of food and learn the importance of spending more money on high-quality food. But of course, my business model is set up so that hopefully I can drop the price of my chickens to be closer to the normal price that consumers are willing to pay. Another way that we can do this is by educating the youth about this kind of farming and the importance of knowing where your food comes from.

Q: Do you have any experience going into schools and helping young people make those connections?

A: So far, I've raised quail chicks in five classrooms: preschool through elementary age. There's also a young man named Chris Brown, Farmer Brown, who is leading the Nanaimo Farm Education. He just started teaching and building a farm school at one of the high schools here. He is more of a vegetable farmer, but we have been working together so that I can be his livestock expert when things start to come together.

Q: How would you suggest for people to get involved with regenerative agriculture, specifically people who have no idea what it is or how to access it?

A: One of the easiest ways is to watch documentaries and Youtube videos to learn what it is and how to get involved because there are so many resources out there. It can be as simple as starting a tomato plant on your apartment balcony or having illegal quail in your backyard! The key is to form those relationships with your food and where it comes from. Go experience a farm...dedicate your Saturday to a farm date with your significant other, or do a weekend getaway and stay at an Airbnb on a regenerative farm.

Number one though is to vote with your dollar. Buy from your farmer's market and then find a regenerative farmer you like and start buying from them. Allocate 10% of your food budget to buying regeneratively grown food...just throw a couple of extra dollars into it and start small.

It's still difficult to find regenerative agriculture in my area, and some of the good farmers are still using questionable practices. You might have to go a little further out from your community, but a lot of farms today will ship meat and produce around the country. Five Marys Farms is one example of this kind of farm.

It is important though to understand that terms like "grass-fed" don't always mean regeneratively raised. A cow can be in a barn, never see the light of day for its entire life, be fed grass forage, and still be called "grass-fed". "Pastured", on the other hand, means that the animals are moved onto fresh grass every single day. So, it's important to know the difference between the terminology. Even "free range" chickens are different because they have constant and free access to the same plot of land on which they will still eventually overgraze.

Q: What's your 30-second elevator speech on regenerative agriculture? What do you want people to know the most?

A: The regenerative agriculture movement is really focused on placing limits on human disturbance. The organic movement was huge, but it has since been industrialized. There are 100 different ways to do regenerative agriculture, and one farmer doing organic farming may be completely unsustainable while one farmer doing conventional farming that uses regenerative techniques might be far more sustainable, even though they have no certifications. The hardest part about regenerative agriculture right now is that there's no set of specific guidelines or qualifications for practices that are involved with it.

Not knowing what someone's practices are and what they are advertising can change everything, so it's critical to get to know your farmer. As Michael Pollan says, "shake the hand that feeds you." Find those farmers that do have good practices, search for them on social media, have conversations at farmers markets, and then once you find those, they can direct you to other farmers that will help you build your menu how you can afford it.